In this episode of The Verdict is: Marketing, attorney Scott Perry of Murray Guari Trial Attorneys shares his strategies for building a strong personal brand and a referral-based marketing practice. Scott explains how branding helps attorneys stand out in a competitive market and offers valuable tips on networking, leadership, and cultivating mutually beneficial relationships. Tune in to learn how to strengthen your brand and grow your practice.
Resources:
Learn more about contributors Attorney Scott Perry – https://www.lawbard.com/about-lawbard/
Transcript
Kim: Hi, and welcome to the second podcast of The Verdict is Marketing, the podcast of all things legal marketing. I’m your host, Kim Sailer, founder of LawBARD and today we will be talking with West Palm Beach attorney Scott Perry of the law firm, Murray Guari Trial Attorneys. Hello, Scott. Thanks for joining us today from sunny West Palm Beach.
Kim: Good morning, how are you doing?
Scott: I’m great. Thanks.
Kim: We wanted to have you on The Verdict is Marketing podcast to talk about personal branding and building a referral-based marketing practice. Before we dive in, I want to share a little bit about you.
Scott Perry of Murray Guari Trial Attorneys
Kim: Scott, your partner at Murray Guari Trial Attorneys in West Palm beach. You represent clients who have been injured due to the negligence of others. You handle personal injury and wrongful death matters with a focus of litigating matters. You were born and raised here in South Florida. You attended law school at the University of Miami and were an undergrad at the University of Florida. You’re actively involved in the American Association for Justice and the Florida Association of Justice, the Palm Beach County Justice Association, and you’re running for reelection for the Board of Directors of the Palm Beach County Bar Association.
Scott: No, that’s, that’s unless you want to talk about somehow becoming on the board for my HOA at my neighborhood, but nobody enjoys those.
The Importance of Building a Strong Personal Brand
Kim: You’re pretty busy at least. Okay, so let’s get started. Our first topic is about the importance of building a strong personal brand. So, Scott, as a marketer, I think attorneys must cultivate and build individual personal brands. It’s about how you want people to see you. It’s about visibility and the values that you outwardly represent.
Kim: How do you yourself view personal branding?
Scott: So, I view it kind of in two different ways. You know, I’ve been lucky enough to be with the same firm since while I was still in law school. So, I would say a lot of my personal branding is an offshoot of the brand of the firm. So, we believe very much in being involved in our community, involved in our legal community. As well as providing very personalized service. So, you know, every client has our cell phone, has my cell phone. And I’ve been able to take that mentality of being very focused on who I am and who we are as a community. Differentiator, and make that as my brand, as an offshoot of our brand. And it’s something that’s taken many years to develop.
Kim: That’s great. Um, how have you developed and cultivated your personal brand as an attorney?
Scott: Again, it’s very much tied to, how our firm operates, which is that, personal touch and making sure that we are available, and are able to be there for them when they need it, and when it comes to different clients, you know, if it’s a client that is my age or maybe a couple years younger, I usually try to advise them saying, this is the advice that I would give you if you were my brother, or my sister, if it’s people that are closer to my parents age, again, similar thing, how I would talk to my parents, what I would recommend for them, and I explained to them, you, know, this may be what’s in your best interest today because it may be maybe in my financial best interest to keep on litigating because maybe my fees go up higher. There’s always a higher upside, but it may not be in the client’s best interest. And sometimes a dollar today is worth far more than a dollar tomorrow, and it’s a matter of making sure that they feel comfortable enough with me to take that message to heart. Those are some of the things too that make you different from a lot of law firms or your competing law firms, is that one on one, that more personalized touch also.
Kim: So, in Florida, you were talking about a saturated market. There were over a hundred thousand lawyers. How does an attorney or even you begin to differentiate yourself in such a competitive market?
Scott: You know, it’s something that takes many years. So, you know, again, my two partners, they had been a developed brand for a number of years before I joined the firm. And I’ve rose through the ranks of being involved in the Palm Beach County Bar. I was on the board for the young lawyer section. Ultimately becoming the president in 2019. I’ve been on the board of directors for the Palm Beach County Bar for the last four years. So, it’s through that service to the community as a whole, there’s, it becomes a way that I’m known in the community. Uh, whether it’s defense attorneys, other attorneys that do other various areas of law and it’s important to show that not only are you mentality competent and professional, but when you are that visible in the community, it does help.
Kim: So, you mentioned that you were the president of the young lawyer section of the Palm Beach County Bar. Any tips or recommendations you’d give any young lawyer starting out?
Scott: There’s a couple of things, uh, whether you are in Palm Beach County, Hillsborough County, Manatee County, there are voluntary bar organizations throughout Florida. Whether it is a large organization such as the Palm Beach County Bar, the Broward County Bar, Miami-Dade, but there’s also Affinity Bars, whether, uh, the Florida Association for Women Lawyers. There’s numerous throughout the state. There are ones for Hispanic County Bars. There are African American Bars. All of those bar associations are there to help its members. And it’s important to join this one. It helps you to make connections in your local community. It can help you grow in terms of finding either prospective clients or a prospective job, if you ever wanted to switch positions. And also, it’s important because it helps generate mentoring opportunities. And I feel mentorship is something that is very needed. And especially if we’re talking about young lawyers, we, we tend to make a joke of that there are young lawyers and seasoned attorneys. And then there are people kind of like me who I’ve been practicing for a little over 12 years and we fall kind of in between. I’m not, I’m definitely not old, but I’m also, I may not qualify as you know, quite as young as some others. and I’ve noticed a trend, especially in those lawyers that first started either during COVID or came out just before it that they’ve developed a thing of a lot of working remotely, not getting involved. And we’ve seen a dramatic decrease in those attorneys coming to events, being involved, not realizing all of the benefits of with people, especially in person. I mean, most people, most young attorneys haven’t even seen the inside of a courtroom. Or even seen the inside of a courtroom. I would say that it would have been important even for my younger self to be out there even more than I was. Getting to know people, making sure to set more lunches, set more coffee, just up talk to more people, whether it’s in the same practice areas, different practice areas, younger attorneys, older attorneys. I wish I was more comfortable in my own skin when I was younger. and realize that most people just want to talk.
Kim: Absolutely. Well I think this has been great insight in our first topic of personal branding. I really like the fact that Murray Guari Trial Attorneys and your brand, your personal brand, are very complementary because they both strengthen the firm brand and it also helps you when you’re out there marketing. And I think that’s something a lot of firms tend to miss. So, great. We’ll break here for a second.
Networking and Referral Marketing
Kim: Okay, once again, this is a Verdict is Marketing podcast discussing all things lawyer marketing. Thanks again for joining. I’m Kim Sailer, and we’re here with attorney Scott Perry from the law firm Murray Guari Trial Attorneys in West Palm Beach. We’re talking about personal branding and referral marketing.
Kim: So, Scott, are you having any fun yet?
Scott: Oh, it’s joyous and I’m enjoying my cup of coffee while we talk
Kim: Excellent. So, let’s move on to our second topic, which is networking and referral marketing. Uh, this goes hand in hand with the first topic. So how important is networking to your own success? Is It vital?
Scott: While, you know, especially as a younger attorney, I wasn’t necessarily generating my own cases and so I was very much reliant on the firm. It’s connections that I may have made even a decade ago that now yield all of the benefits because you never know who you’re going to meet. You never know when they’re going to have a potential client that they may be able to refer. You don’t know when it’s going to come. And it’s important to understand it’s okay to be patient. Some people are all about, you know, quick connection, only what can I do for you today? What can you do for me today? Rather than understanding that the process sometimes can take quite a bit of time.
Kim: Absolutely. So, without giving away all your secrets, how are you using networking to generate business and build your client base?
Scott: It’s all about being personable and also about being true to yourself. So, for example, if you know that there are people you just don’t want to work with, you wouldn’t because of one reason or another. It’s okay to, you know, be friendly, say hi if you see them at an event, but it’s important not necessarily to focus on them. It’s important to constantly, though, stay top of mind with those referral sources that ultimately have been yielding fruit. And even the ones that haven’t yielded fruit, it’s still important to stay top of mind, always stay present to the extent you can, and be polite about it.
Kim: Oh, absolutely. So, a few years back, I worked with a successful lawyer who used to write handwritten notes to attorneys or anyone he met or just happened to run into. Do you think things like that are still relevant or effective?
Scott: I wouldn’t say that it’s not effective, but it is. And I wouldn’t necessarily say that it is effective, because it can definitely stand out. It can definitely be a difference maker, but it also depends on your audience. Because you know, there are certain people of certain generations that that would be very beneficial to, and there are others where a handwritten note just isn’t gonna matter to them. It’s, they’re, they need the shorter attention span method.
Kim: Oh, absolutely. Get that. And to be fair, uh, this attorney, uh, was a very successful trial attorney with a strong niche and a reputation. But this brings me to my next question. A lot of professionals, not just attorneys, hand out business cards or give their contact information out to a lot of people they meet, and they don’t get any calls from those individuals once they’ve distributed that information. Why do you think that is?
Scott: You know, I could be guilty of that, too. I mean, I hand out business cards. I’ve received business cards just because I received a business card. I don’t always necessarily reach out to that person because, you know, sometimes it’s about what is needed when or are they close enough where you can go and have some sort of additional touch. And that might even be a shortcoming of myself, or maybe I’m not doing that as effectively, but, it’s important to understand that you may need to hand out that business card a couple times to the same person before all of a sudden, you know what, one day they go, Oh, I have somebody that might be right for you or vice versa.
Kim: Absolutely. So, what are you doing to offer value when you network, and you make new connections? Because a lot of times I think for attorneys sometimes it’s almost like a one-way street and they don’t always think about, is what value can you also provide in other ways?
Scott: We always view it this way. If somebody sends us a client, we are always going to give them 110%. Doesn’t matter whether that client has a case value of 10,000 or 10 million. Every case deserves full effort. We pride ourselves here at our firm at Murray Guaro when clients come in, they’re meeting with an attorney. They’re not meeting with a paralegal. They’re not meeting with an investigator or just an intake specialist. They have an attorney who’s going to be with them from the beginning to the end. We litigate our own cases. You know, there are certain firms that only will handle cases in pre-suit, and if it doesn’t resolve, then they farm it out to another firm that does the litigation. We do our own litigation, so we’re always preparing our cases with a focus towards if we have to go into litigation, are we set up properly for I noticed some other firms, and I’m sure you do this as well, you may end up referring them a case later if it’s an attorney referral, you may end up sharing information, um, so there’s a lot of other ways to provide value even if it isn’t always a case to case. Oh, of course, and you know, if it’s an attorney, for example, that’s referring the case to us, we’re always prepared. You know, there are legal ways, such as a referral fee for attorneys when they sign on to be part of the case. So, it’s not necessarily just a pure referral fee, but there are ways like that. Now, if it’s, you know, a friend that sends you a case, obviously, under the ethics rule, you can’t share fees, but you never know. That person might be a, you know, a banker and you go, hey, I’ve got a fellow attorney friend who needs financial advice. You should go talk to them. There are various ways that you can help network, whether it’s for an attorney, for a banker, for anyone. I think the common pitfall is falling into what have you done for me now? And remembering that things sometimes come in cycles. You could have no business. In an area for months or even a couple of years and all of a sudden you have an influx of cases, and you know, if somebody is saying, hey, you know, what have you done for me now? And being all negative on it, it’s not gonna really want to make it where you want to do business with those people. Sure. And so, it’s that concept of it. Always trying to be professional, always trying to be polite, and it’s okay if, you know, there hasn’t been able to be business generated because things come in.
Kim: Yeah, it’s a long game strategy. I also find, you know, in addition to the personal branding, that we talked about, there tends sometimes to be a lack of that and a lack of strategy when they go to these activities and events that they have no plan of what they want to accomplish, who they want to meet and what they want to do from a follow up. But, the things you’ve said are spot on. We touched upon this, what do you think about the use of technology and networking?
Scott: What do you mean by use of technology?
Kim: You know, we were talking about how sometimes the lack of in person versus just the reliance on technology to communicate with people. I’m finding now that again, I think too, like you had mentioned since COVID, there’s a lack of meaningful one on one conversations. Either they don’t know how to do it, or they’re afraid of it, or they just, you know, lack the skills to how to carry some of those conversations on.
Scott: Got it. So, I would say if there’s ever an opportunity of a choice between a Zoom meeting and a live meeting, especially if it’s multiple people. Always do a live meeting because when we meet via zoom, it’s very impersonal. You can only have truly one conversation going at one time. I’ve gone to zoom seminars where they tried putting people into breakout rooms. Well, guess what? You can still, even if there’s only six of us in a breakout room, well, you and I can have a conversation, but if you and I are talking. Somebody else over there can’t be talking and, it’s not the same even, yes, some of them have the chat features, but there’s something to be said about me going to places in person, because then guess what? You’re going to be sitting and you’re going to have an opportunity to chat with the person in person. Before the meeting starts, maybe, you know, you shouldn’t be chatting during the seminar, but you might be chatting with the person next to you during the seminar, during breaks afterwards, there is a mix for a much more meaningful opportunity when you’re around people and technology, while it’s great, if we all needed to get together and we’re all on the other sides of the country. Fine, but in for, especially for things that are networking, or having capability of being networking, I think they should be networking or having capability of being networking, I think they should be live. Places can mean starting off with it. It comes down to go to places. And around people that you want to be with, and that can mean starting off with, hey, people that are like minded in serving the community, whether that is going through a voluntary bar organization, going to a religious organization, a church, a synagogue. Doesn’t matter, you know, those types of places or, you know, I golf and I, I belong to a country club and I can tell you while at first I couldn’t say that I necessarily generated business directly because of it over the years, I have started to develop business, whether it’s connections with other lawyers, people who have family members who have gotten in, in car accidents, even just last week, I have spoken to multiple people all because of connections I have on the golf course. Are those necessarily going to generate into actual dollars in our pocket on these cases. No, but you know what? They remember the fact that I took time to help them and help their family members and down the line, they’re going to remember.
Kim: Absolutely remember those. Scott, those are some great networking tips, but what you didn’t tell people is the reason you didn’t have the connections with golf is because you kept beating everybody.
Kim: Well take a quick break and be right back.
Involvement in Legal Bar Associations and Community Organizations
Kim: Once again, this is the Verdict is Marketing podcast, discussing all things lawyer marketing. I’m Kim Sailer of LawBARD. Thanks for joining. We’re here with attorney Scott Perry from the law firm Murray Guari Trial Attorneys in West Palm Beach, Florida. We’re talking about personal branding and marketing. Scott, it’s apparent when I read your bio that you’re very involved in the Bar Association, Trial Lawyers Associations, and philanthropic organizations. What drives you to invest your limited time in all of these different groups?
Scott: I feel it’s very important to give back. It’s not all about what can you do for me? It should be more of what can we do for all of us? Because if I’m able to give back into the community and push, for you know, better professionalism, better education, better training. You know what? It makes everything better for all of us. You know, being a lawyer can be very stressful and I don’t think that’s any secret, but it’s a stressful job by its very nature because it’s antagonistic by nature, but it doesn’t have to be harder than it already is just because the other person is. You know, quote unquote, the other side doesn’t mean they have to be the enemy doesn’t mean you can’t work together towards a mutual resolution to your claim. And being polite and friendly with the other side doesn’t mean that you’re going to, doing your client a disservice. If anything, it tends to be where it makes a service to your client because you tend to either get a better result. Or a quicker result. And typically, better and quicker, no matter which way you’re looking at it, means more money or saving of money.
Kim: Absolutely. Wat is the importance and value of leadership roles?
Scott: I feel that those of us that, again, are, have a desire to do better and see the community do better need to be in leadership and with leadership comes that responsibility, but it also gives you the platform to push those topics that are important, whether it’s professionalism, mentoring, understanding that if we don’t do things for the next generation, who is you have to remember the young lawyers of today are the potential future leaders of tomorrow. It’s a combination of factors. You have to be willing to take charge, willing to live by your decisions, but the decisions you may have to be tempered with not only looking out what’s best for your own interest, but looking out for the interest of all is sometimes the decisions you make. May be against your own best interest, but they’re in the best interest of an organization and the members that you represent. And it’s important to understand that that’s okay. You are there for a reason. And that reason is not just based upon your own beliefs, but having to be able to take those beliefs. Be led by them, but look to understand the bigger picture.
Kim: Absolutely. And I think sometimes people think just because they’re on a leadership board or association that, you know, they just show up, but no, you have to active participation and show up and do things, have compassion, listen, and mentor. Like you said, I think those are very good attributes and qualities. What do you believe or what, how do you balance the responsibilities of leadership with your legal practice? Times,
Scott: It’s difficult. Uh, sometimes, you know, it takes away time from, you know, whether, you know, needing to be. Prepping for a deposition, preparing for a case and, you know, always make sure that the work takes priority. However, whether that may just mean, you know what, you do a little extra work later on at night. You come in a little earlier in the morning, you work through lunch. There are ways to balance it all.
Scott: And it’s important to have balance, whether it’s. It can be your professional life, Your quasi professional life, or your personal life. And when I say the quasi professional life, I refer to all of those volunteer organizations because while those are important and can very much benefit your professional, you do have a job and your job is the one that’s what you get paid for and serving those people that have hired you. But you are able to balance it all out and realize that, you know, with that leadership, it also comes with the benefits of, you have a lot more interactions on a, a one to one basis. With judges, for example, and while a judge isn’t going to rule in your favor, simply because they know who you are, if you’re having a bad day, you’re having an off day, You’re going to get that benefit of the doubt, because they know who you are as a person, and they understand who, what you stand for, and it’s, it doesn’t hurt to walk in there and a judge go, you know, good morning, Mr. Perry, I know exactly who you are before you start.
Kim: Yeah, absolutely Um, we’ve touched upon this, but I think it’s an important one. How do you recommend a young lawyer get involved in leadership?
Scott: Start small. Ask to be on a committee, volunteer to be on a subcommittee. Just go join your, your voluntary bar organizations. Almost all of them have leadership paths. They may not be, you know, called, Hey, there’s a leadership path here. But, you know, for example, Palm Beach County, we have our young lawyers section. Anyone who wants to be on the board, all you have to do is show up. You sign up, to get on the emails to know when the meetings are. As the second Tuesday of every month. And you come, there’s an executive board that you have to be elected to, but if you want to be on our board, all you do is show up, get on a committee, same thing even with the Palm Beach County Bar, there are numerous, there’s over 20 committees, ranging from circuit civil, to professionalism, to land use, to workers comp, to many, many other areas. And you know what? Again, all you have to do, sign in and say, you know what, I want to be on that committee. You don’t have to be the chair of the committee. But you can show up, get to know people, and after a year or two, if you feel up to it, step up, volunteer. Everybody is always looking for people to volunteer, so it’s not the same small group of people that do everything.
Kim: Definitely.
Scott: And for those, if they, you know, have a passion outside of, you know, the bar associations, there’s a lot of charity and business organizations as well that there are plenty of opportunities that they can get involved in there as well.
Kim: Lastly, I want to mention you’re currently running for reelection of the Palm Beach County Bar Board of Directors. What specific initiatives or goals do you hope to prioritize if you’re reelected?
Scott: So, as a director, there’s, we, we kind of have a couple different roles. We oversee the entire board of our organization. I mean, we do have an executive director, we have staff that handles a lot more of the day to day. So, ours is more of the strategic, you know, planning for the entire bar. But especially if I do get reelected, and I hope to, the areas that I plan to continue to push for are both in mentoring and of the young lawyers and getting more people involved. You know, especially those that are in that zero to five years of practice is again, they are going to be the leaders of the future. They are going to be the bar members of the future. And while times have been changing, you know, it’s important for the bar to in one respect change with it and also help acclimate those younger attorneys who maybe aren’t used to seeing people in person and helping make sure that they’re comfortable and are set up to succeed.
Kim: Great. And, and when is the vote? The election?
Scott: Any Palm Beach County Bar member can vote from April 9th to the 18th.
Kim: I’ve enjoyed my time with you this morning. Thank you so much. Good luck with the upcoming election. Come back and let us know how you do.
Scott: Will do.
Kim: We are going to take a break. Don’t go anywhere we’ll be right back.
The Verdict is Marketing lightning Round
Kim: Okay, welcome back. This is a Verdict is Marketing podcast discussing all things lawyer marketing. Thanks for joining. I’m Kim Sailer of LawBARD and we’re here with attorney Scott Perry from the law firm, Murray Guari Trial Attorneys in West Palm Beach, Florida. We’re talking about personal branding and referral marketing.
Kim: As the show comes to an end, it’s time for the Verdict is Marketing lightning round. Scott, these are the tough questions.
Scott: Oh
Kim: I’m going to mention five phrases. You’re going to give me the first things that comes to your mind for each. Are you ready?
Scott: You want one word responses or multi word
Kim: It’s entirely up to you.
Scott: Alright.
Kim: Okay, here’s the first one. Hurricanes or Gators?
Scott: Gators, 100%.
Kim: The importance of referral marketing?
Scott: Absolutely vital.
Kim: While we didn’t talk about it. Artificial intelligence?
Scott: Don’t know enough about it. Scares the daylights out of me and looking forward to seeing what comes of it, but understanding that there’s a lot of potential pitfalls, especially when it comes to the legal profession.
Kim: Your firm, Murray Guari Trial Attorneys?
Scott: I’ve been here for over a decade. Uh, and I feel that what we do is make sure that we provide excellent service with a personal touch. And that personal touch is something that is near and dear to our firm and near and dear to me. You know, I think it’s always important to understand the big picture, and the practice of law requires us to do that, a balancing act, but it’s important to never lose sight of the end goal.
Kim: Okay. Time. Let’s call it a wrap. So, Scott, any last words?
Scott: I would say the most important thing for any young lawyer is number one, find a mentor, number two, have patience. Things don’t always happen overnight, but you’d be amazed at how quickly time flies and how quickly things can generate.
Kim: We’ve had a great conversation about networking, personal branding and marketing. I’d like to thank our guest, Scott Perry of Palm Beach County, Florida’s law firm, Murray Guari Trial Attorneys. Scott, good luck on your re election efforts for the Palm Beach County Bar Board of Directors. We’d love to have you stop back again in the future.
Scott: Thank you, Kim. I appreciate that and happy to come back anytime.
Kim: Great. For anyone out there listening, uh, feel free to drop me a line at Kim@lawbard.com or visit us at Lawbard.com. Our next guest on the Verdict is Marketing will be attorney Denise Lehr of Kelly Kronenberg. Until next time, the Verdict is Marketing is adjourned.
